Best part of testing. They learn and change instead of sticking to their original design.
Early lessons are some of the most valuable, because all future craft inherit them.
[Full res picture.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E66kStSWYAUjCpx?format=jpg&name=orig)
That's why you flight test. Real world data is always better than simulations.
That the ‘Skydive / bellyflop’ worked so well first time was great. But I think it’s clear that SpaceX were initially expecting more problems with it.
Obviously their results show that this first flap design has more command authority than they actually needed. And so smaller, lighter flaps would be sufficient.
That is really good news! That removes weight where it is most critical!
It also probably makes the flaps faster moving, unless they shrink the drive-train too.
Yes, but does this translate to hypersonic velocities?
Well, they are gonna yeet one at Hawaii shortly to find out!
So those images on the Starship dev thread were right, I'm guessing a lot was learned when dealing with the tile development.
Were there images showing narrower flaps? For S20?
That’s fantastic news! Any bit of weight savings should be pursued if it doesn’t hamper reuse.
Probably pretty essential when you have so much pressure on the hinges during re-entry.
SpaceX would be setting Starship to have the same resistive force during reentry regardless of the size of the flaps. The only difference would be that larger flaps would be tucked backwards more, while smaller flaps would need to be more perpendicular.
Note the extension of belly tiles for protection from plasma pushed around the ends of the fins.
Just to be clear, this is a fan made render, as far as I am aware those types of details have yet to be seen from SpaceX themselves, so who knows what they will end up with.
Narrower in which direction? Like as in less surface area or a thinner flap?
Reads more like less surface area imo but unclear.
I wonder if Mars still requires wide ones though...
They'll be able to test that pretty well when doing orbital reentry. Earth's atmosphere at high altitude is similarly thin like Mars.
yeey, more Payload Capacity
My estimates for flap mass:
Bottom flap: 950 kg
Top flap: 550 kg
Wow, I bet you're a pro at guessing the number of jelly beans in a jar.
Will they now be called flaplets? Oh no, another naming controversy! ;) :D
I get the feeling that the SH/SS design needs to go on a diet if it’s to meet Musks goals. Early prototype’s are probably a bit heavy as yet
Interesting, though I don’t know where they have been ‘flight tested’ - I thought that no Super Heavy booster section has yet flown..
Falcon-9 booster has - and uses smaller grid-fins.
But lighter - provided it can do the job, is always good.
Maybe they got the grid-fins tested in a wind tunnel ?
( Correction: it seems to be about Starship fins, not about Super Heavy’s grid-fins )
Of course Starship has been flown a number of times.
They're talking about the flaps on Starship.
So increased payload capacity now?
We don't know if current design is capable of even 100t. All mass cutting so far might be targeting the initial goal, not extensions. They could as well be at estimated 50t and trying desperately to make it closer to 100t. Or they could be exceeding it and trying to get more and more.
However all Starship's dry mass related tweets from Elon over a year or so ago are quite negative (including one suggesting Starship may not achieve rapid reusability at all), so my assumption is they are currently not even achieving the original goal in their estimations.\\
Remember, they started with a 12.5 mm wall thick tank that could barely lift and then tried making a 200t ridiculously heavy Starship MK1. Current design is no the production design, so it may still be a lot of steps ahead for the 1.0. Don't treat it as upgrades over finished design!
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|[CFD](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h67wvz3 "Last usage")|Computational Fluid Dynamics|
|[EDL](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h69ca5w "Last usage")|Entry/Descent/Landing|
|[LEO](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h67s507 "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|[NG](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h6743zl "Last usage")|New Glenn, two/three-stage orbital vehicle by Blue Origin|
| |Natural Gas (as opposed to pure methane)|
| |Northrop Grumman, aerospace manufacturer|
|[NSF](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h66tndh "Last usage")|[NasaSpaceFlight forum](http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com)|
| |National Science Foundation|
|[RUD](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h67gto5 "Last usage")|Rapid Unplanned Disassembly|
| |Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly|
| |Rapid Unintended Disassembly|
|[SLS](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h67zea6 "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|[ablative](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h67ud6v "Last usage")|Material which is intentionally destroyed in use (for example, heatshields which burn away to dissipate heat)|
|[cryogenic](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h68b0h8 "Last usage")|Very low temperature fluid; materials that would be gaseous at room temperature/pressure|
| |(In re: rocket fuel) Often synonymous with hydrolox|
|hydrolox|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer|
|[iron waffle](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/oplhmr/stub/h667suv "Last usage")|Compact "waffle-iron" aerodynamic control surface, acts as a wing without needing to be as large; also, "grid fin"|
^(*Decronym is a community product of r/SpaceX, implemented* )[*^by ^request*](https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/3mz273//cvjkjmj)
^(10 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/ob9t6u)^( has 39 acronyms.)
^([Thread #8338 for this sub, first seen 22nd Jul 2021, 22:11])
^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/SpaceXLounge) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Welcome to r/SpaceXLounge, the sister subreddit to r/SpaceX, and a place for relaxed and laid-back discussion. We recommend Old Reddit with r/SpaceXLounge. This subreddit is not an official outlet for SpaceX information.