Posted by u/relevantlife 14 hours ago
The Mormon Church teaches that it alone holds the keys that allow someone to be with their family in the afterlife. This is one of the single greatest examples of manipulation & psychological abuse via doctrine. If a church has to hold families hostage to keep people in line, it's a fucking cult.
[Here](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1976/10/families-are-forever?lang=eng) is a link to the mormon church's website explaining their teaching on "eternal families."
> A “forever family” requires that couple possess baptismal certificates, be worthy members of the Church to qualify for temple recommends, and possess a marriage certificate signifying a celestial marriage.
Mormons are taught that if they leave the faith, they will not get to be with their family for eternity.
It gets even more manipulative, though. They are also denied temple recommends if they dare to drink coffee. If you can't get in the temple, you can't complete the steps required to be with your family forever.
Basically, the Mormon church holds families hostage to keep people in line.
This one doctrine has got to be the single greatest example of a religion contriving a doctrine to manipulate and psychological abuse people into submission.
Oh, you think hell is bad? Let me tell you about how you'll never get to see your family again, in Heaven or Hell.
> A “forever family” requires that couple possess baptismal certificates, be worthy members of the Church to qualify for temple recommends, and possess a marriage certificate signifying a celestial marriage.
Mormons are taught that if they leave the faith, they will not get to be with their family for eternity.
It gets even more manipulative, though. They are also denied temple recommends if they dare to drink coffee. If you can't get in the temple, you can't complete the steps required to be with your family forever.
Basically, the Mormon church holds families hostage to keep people in line.
This one doctrine has got to be the single greatest example of a religion contriving a doctrine to manipulate and psychological abuse people into submission.
Oh, you think hell is bad? Let me tell you about how you'll never get to see your family again, in Heaven or Hell.
Celestial Hostage Taking. Period. This is why they give priesthood to every father, because you need to be paying tithing to bless, baptize, confirm, and ordain children for nearly 20 years. After that, you've been entrapped long enough that you don't want to quit faking.
Exmo here and can confirm this is the doctrine though they are more delicate in the delivery. Ultimately, yes, that’s the message. I also acknowledge that emotional abuse and manipulation is prevalent to one degree or another in most (if not all) theistic belief structures. It’s always about controlling others.
I went through the temple in 1980 and it's sealed the deal for me leaving Mormonism when I had to learn death hand signs, that preachers from other religions were portrayed as literally being in league with the devil and my wife had to take an oath to obey me. Those 3 highly objectionable parts were taken out of the temple ceremony a few years later, by they still left to some odious crap in the ceremony.
If anyone doubts that it is a cult, how many religions make you burn markings out of your underwear when they wear out? Control, all the way down to your underwear. My screen name on Reddit is a direct statement to this experience.
If a church runs a state, it’s a fucking well organized cult
It’s no different from the Rajneeshis in Oregon in the 80s
Except the Mormons were successful at infiltrating the government.
They’re absolutely a cult, I left. I got married, I changed my name. They found me and stated harassing me. I had to get a laywer to force the removal of my name from their lists. 20 years after I left those evil pricks tracked me down. A cult tracks it’s people down, I was never one by choice
And they all feel so innocent about it. Lay clerks just updating the records of "inactive members".
I invite you to search "when Stephen fry got kicked out of salt lake city" Spoilers: when told, as part of a tourist group, that it is preached that after death you're reunited with all our family,he asked "but what if you've been good.?" 300 upvotes? I'm basking in Stephen fry's reflected glory here. For it is written :a facility for quotation merely belies a lack of original thought. : Dorothy L. Sayers
I laughed my ass off when my Bishopric wouldn't answer this question "So if my parents are sealed in the Temple" but then get divorced... then after they die, they are reunited with each other in the afterlife? What if Dad or Mom gets remarried, and decided to have another Temple Sealing? So what then?
When you throw in "wrenches" into their logic, they just squirm and deflect their answers.
So as Stephen Fry pointed out "if my whole family are bastards and I'm not... then what about this reunited in Hell part!?"
Mormons have three levels of heaven. All of it is bullshit.
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(as a ex-Mormon, I grew up following it up until I turned 18. But at the age of 13, I hit the age of "reasoning" where I discovered a lot of what was being taught had absolutely no basis in reality. Also, when I did my mission interview, I told the truth, and was told "not going on mission because my family wasn't 'okay'". However the other three "boys" who interviewed, lied through their fucking teeth about their sinless lives. This alone, made my patriarch blessing suspect. When I realized two of my friends were going on their missions, and I wasn't. I knew some serious bullshit was afoul, when telling the truth meant unworthiness. At 18, I was now an adult. So no more following childish bullshit for me)
Well pretty much all abrahamic religions use mental and sometimes even physical abuse to control people, free thinking individuals are dangerous to this cult.
Yup. Former Jehovah's Witness here. Nobody in my family will speak to me. My mom blocked my phone number. She might not be alive any more for all I know. My sister wouldn't acknowledge me when I ran into her at Walmart. I said hi and she walked right by, had no idea she was even pregnant until I saw her, I'll never meet my niece/nephew and I doubt they'll even know I exist.
Same thing with my friends. My best friend since middle school also won't speak to me. We had so many adventures together, we used to ride our bikes together to the movie theater and talked about Star Wars for hours. We were together the first time we both got drunk and he puked his guts out, but we were smart enough to not say anything. Haven't spoke to him in years. I gave up trying to talk to him after a while.
It wasn't a gradual process. One day things were fine then poof nobody would acknowledge me. JWs are not allowed to be friends with non believers so it was literally everyone I knew. I damn near killed myself because I had nobody in my life left. It took me years to actually rebuild any sort of social life.
All of this is because I shared a link on Facebook pointing out that JWs don't report pedophiles to the police. It seems like that should be common sense, and most JWs are not aware of the group's child abuse policies. But instead of being surprised and asking why they protect pedophiles, I was labeled an Apostate and kicked out.
If you are literally baptizing dead people who DIED IN THE FUCKING HOLOCAUST BECAUSE OF THEIR FAITH despite being told multiple times it's offensive, you are a shit cult. (Yes, Mormons 're-baptize' dead people).
As a teenager it was a regular activity for the youth group to go to the local temple and get baptized for the dead. I think the most they gave me in one session was 60. And in mormonism it's a full dunk baptism, not the sprinkle of water on the head shit.
Every time anyone says anything about Mormonism I immediately go back to the founding father of the cult. How could you not? Magic spectacles and conveniently disappearing holy tablets. How fucking gullible are you motherfuckers? Harsh, I know, but really?! What roped you in in the early 1800s? Was it the multiple wives bit? Who knows. But damn...
There are no apparent limits to human gullibility.
Mormonism was founded by a known con-man with a central precept of allowing him, the con-man, to have as many wives as he wanted. It's a sex for church leaders cult.
The only thing further along the wacky scale is Scientology , founded by a 2nd rate Science Fiction writer because, as he clearly stated, there's far more money in religion.
I was raised mormon, I remember this teaching. When I was a kid I was terrified that I would go to the telestial kingdom (middle of the 3 mormon havens) And would be left behind by my family. I was like, 6.
Same. I totally didn’t think I would make it.
Yeah, exmo here. Because of this teaching, I'm an open atheist to everyone but my family. Which is weird because my wife's family lives literally ten houses away from my family and they know we are atheists but my family still does not.
There’s so much compartmentalism when you’re raised super religious, that’s my experience anyway. Like, you don’t want to hurt the feelings of the people who believe but then you don’t get to be your authentic self. I’m sorry there’s such a wall between you and your fam, hope you can connect and be yourself with them sometimes.
Ha ha! My Mormon family was very toxic and dysfunctional. Telling me I could be with them forever was more of a threat than a reward. Made it easier for me and almost all of my siblings to escape.
Same here. I could not fathom how this nonsense was supposed to be motivational. I’d sit in Sunday school and wonder why the fuck anyone would want to be with anyone for eternity. I noped out for other reasons but I always thought this particular point was hilarious.
yeah one of the strongest tools is the brainwashing toolbox is isolating people. this is sort of an advanced tactic, where you come between people who already have healthy relationships (well you also do that to their unhealthy relationships, which are one of your biggest assets). you basically make them unable to function (interpersonally) without your direction. takes a lot of background work destroying their sense of identity but the payoff is great if you enjoy dominating people.
I missed the weddings of my three sisters because I wasn’t temple worthy.
Seems like a positive to me. Weddings are boring as shit without booze.
It isn't just the Mormon church. It's baptist and catholic as well. Birthing people into the cult and indoctrinating them from birth is far easier than converting someone already set in their ways. This is why religions promote "pro-life." Children are just as great a chain to bind people with as other family. Baptists preach it as them being "the only thing you get to take with you" while simultaneously preaching hellfire and damnation. They preach "once saved always saved," yet still speak of "diminished rewards" and things like not being a part of your family's mansion and the like. Catholicism was a bit worse since you could fail your way out of and buy your way into heaven. No matter what, though, they certainly do put the "fear" of god in you. Emphasis on the fear.
In my opinion, Mormons are blatantly worse than most others in terms of family separation after death. To Mormons, being “good” or “bad” doesn’t mean you go to “heaven” or “hell;” Mormons literally preach that individuals will be separated based on their obedience in life into one of three heavens (four, if you include Outer Darkness, or “Mormon Hell,” which is reserved almost exclusively for apostates (hello, fellow heathens!)). So, even if you’re a great person, if your mother or sister or son or spouse or anyone is more or less obedient and “valiant” than you, you’ll be separated from them for the rest of forever. Mormonism is the only religion I’m aware of which preaches a version of heaven where families will be separated for eternity.
Fuck Mormonism, and fuck religion. Religion is just weaponized spirituality, and I refuse to ever be involved again.
>celestial marriage sounds like the theme to a lovely lesbian wedding
As the prophecy foretold.
Its really interesting talking to all the LDS folks I know about their idea of the afterlife and the absolute strangeness of it. I almost feel like they put less sake in finding happiness in their living life because they believe the afterlife is eternal and on the other side. I've heard absolutrlt abhorrent stories about Mormons' family members doing vile shit and then them turn around and talk about how they can't wait to see them in the celestial kingdom. It is really strange the grip of the promise of an afterlife can have on people
Make shit up, give us money.
The most heinous strain of this belief that I've encountered was in the book "Saving Alex". The twist is that if you are an unsaved gay person, your good mormon family will be in heaven and Heavenly Father will create a fake clone of yourself that has your personality but isn't a disgusting gay sinner like you. Meanwhile you'll be condemned to hell or oblivion [edit: the telestial kingdom, basically earth but you'll be sorry you didn't believe Joseph Smith, and sulk for eternity] or whatever. But the important part is that the good believers will be happy and together with the people they loved, even if it's all fake. I think this belief is based on the verses saying there is no suffering in heaven, like: Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
What the hell?! I’m an ex-mo and was very very in for a very long time. Never ever have I encountered that doctrine. It’s crazy messed up, but it ain’t Mormon. The Mormon belief (which isn’t much better) is that being gay is a “mortal condition” like a defect that won’t be a part of you when you are resurrected. “So don’t worry gay kids! You’ll like women in heaven, so just be be celibate your whole life down here so you can be in heaven, okay?”
I grew up Mormon. At age 12, after coming home from a field trip to the temple to be baptized for the dead, I asked my dad if the deceased would be upset that they were now in a religion they may not believe in. He was caught off guard, but eventually said that as a good Mormon you shouldn't ask those questions and just do as the Prophet says. I forget what other reasoning he gave, but after that day I never willingly went back to church.
I always thought it was rationalized with something like "well, they will be ministered to in spirit prison, and they can accept or reject the baptism in the afterlife".
Of course, that sounds like a reason to stop proselytizing to me. Probably more reasonable to join a religion after it's already been proved to you that there's an afterlife... So let's people die in ignorance and join then!
Also, being forced to tithe 10% of your fucking income is straight up extortion.
And they want it pre-tax too!
Wait until you hear about Jesus Christ...
You mean Mormon useless Middle Management Jesus?
Just like OP demonstrates, Mormon God loves his bureaucracy. So it was inevitable their non-trinitarian Jesus was just going to become a middle manager.
Mormon is a cult.
I was raised a Mormon until I left the church at 18 yrs old I can confirm this.
Well the Mormons at least believe that unbelievers can go to a type of heaven after suffering whereas Christians believe they burn forever and are separated forever.
Yeah. It’s important to note that Mormons believe that 99% of people will eventually reach heaven of some sorts—that almost everyone will experience anything way way way better than any earthly life. Mormons don’t really believe in a traditional “hell.” And maybe that doesn’t discount other atrocities. But I think OP misconstrues some of the ‘hostage’ holding aspects. Yes, leaders and the Church (which is actually a corporation), manipulate and abuse this teaching. But there’s precedent in Mormon doctrine that all families will still be ‘together’ in the traditional sense of being able to see one another for eternity.
It’s also important to note that merely ‘leaving the church’ doesn’t bar anyone from reaching heaven in Mormon doctrine, as much as people like to say. When you get to the nitty gritty, the only way to not go to heaven is to actually have known God (or the god they profess, at least) to the fullest, like in person even, and still reject it all. So, Mormon doctrine teaches that everyone will have so so many opportunities, during and after this life, to choose what they want with the fullest knowledge given to them. So when properly taught, Mormon doctrine teaches most people will be ‘saved’ and have eternal life. But hey, one persons heaven is another persons hell...
All of this to say, the conversation is a tad more nuanced than OP is letting on. I agree that the church is still manipulative and many of its leaders twist scriptures and teachings to their narrative and benefit. It’s disgustingly vile. And lots of the culture is effed up. But there are solid Mormons out there, who don’t deserve the hate either. Some of the best people I know.
Source: recovering BYU graduate, native Utahn, and wayward sheep ;)
There's a genealogy computer in the local Library and has been for well over 20 years now. mormon's sit at that computer the entire time the Library is open to get names of mormons past relatives they are written down so they can be let into heaven. Can't make it into heaven unless your in that book! LoL I've always wondered what the other religions make of that.
Baptism of the dead is one of the weirder things mormons do imo, they were(are?) baptizing holocaust victims, the Jewish churches weren't very happy about it. I think it's a gross practice.
A Muslim friend told me that he said this to an imam,"You are very good in twisting the words from the Koran to suit your own needs."
Brave
Mormonism is just terrible
Pretty damn obvious cult though. Joseph Smith was the L Ron Hubbard of his day.
Depending on the family member, this might be the single most compelling reason for me to become a Mormon!
No doubt, where do I sign up? lol
Is this why the stereotype (and usually an actual thing..) of Mormons having unsually large families persists? I wonder if they think that this would be an incentive to have more kids so they have more people with them after death(?)
I love my wife, but vows clearly state, till death do we part....after death, well that's my time
Same thing with jehovahs witnesses.
Seize all their assets without compensation. They are a cancer to society
I wear Mormon magic underwear, even though I'm not Mormon.
ew why?
For more fun in this check out r/exmormon and exmo TikTok
What tiktok
I agree its terrible but why is this any more cultiah than any other religion that teaches it hold the only way?
Mountain Meadows, muddafuggas. Mountain Meadows.
Wait. So you can get booted out of the Mormon Church for drinking.....coffee? Here in Portland, OR, NOT drinking coffee is practically a sin 😉
Aye, Ex-Mormon here. It's a cult of bullshit. My own mother told me it would have been better if I had died than leave the church, because then I wouldn't be breaking up the family in heaven.
I was in the foster system and lost my older brother to suicide when he was 15. I joined the Mormon church when I was in my late teens, because they really sold me on the 'family is forever' nonsense. They convinced me that I could save his soul and spend eternity with him, I just had to join them. It's been over 7 years since I left that cult, and it still screws with me when I think about my brother. I felt so manipulated, like they found my weakest point and just ran with it.
What everyone is missing are the questions the bishop would ask a 12 year old to make sure they were temple worthy. Questions such as “do you masterbate? All kinds of sexual questions to make sure we were pure of heart. It was humiliating. You will pay your tithing even if it’s the last $5 bucks you have and your baby needs formula, God will provide for those with faith. Take the tithing from the desperate poor but build a mall next to SLC temple square because the church needs an investment portfolio. If you don’t pay a full tithe you will not be going to the temple, if you have a sexual fantasy with someone other than your spouse-you will not be going to the temple. Last time I looked sex is between my husband and myself-the church has nothing to do with our sex life. My daughter was told her marriage was not valid because her and her husband were married outside of the temple. My beautiful grandson will be punished and prevented from being with his family for all of eternity because his parents aren’t sealed. Now all of a sudden it’s ok to be gay as long as you don’t have sex. Pray the gay away! My dad carried guilt to his deathbed confession regarding his fears in Vietnam. I did not know the guilt he carried for 60 years, my heart still breaks for him thinking he was going to Mormon hell because he fought in a war. He was a good man and a great dad but he goes to hell for something he did when he was 17. Bullshit. God does not give me the love I have for my family only to tell me I screwed up and am not good enough to be with them.
Don't forget that they also will withhold temple recommends if you don't pay at least 10% of your income to tithing. Without your tithing, no recommend. Without your recommend, no super-exclusive VIP heaven. You literally have to pay money to get into heaven.
Thats was when I saw through Christianities bullshit. When members of my family died, everyone cried. Me believing in Christianity asked everyone why when death is a good thing because they are in heaven. The truth was obvious, and everyone knew it. Death is permanent, there is no heaven, and most only follow religion to fit in.
Crazy brainwashed fucks.
While on a visit for work to SLC I visited the church grounds. I came away disappointed that not one person from the church spoke to me.
If it's any consolation, "the saints" hold up as sanctified the very thing that protects their pantaloons from skid mark transference; they strike a creepy tone even between and among themselves, but are not allowed to mention the feeling; and their women routinely violate their vows of premarital chastity with hellbound heathens like me. I hope this takes some of the sting you're experiencing at news that they, like most religions, treat their offspring like crap.
Yeah but it’s obviously a bunch of bullshit.
All monotheistic religions do this. You have to buy in. Put in some of your own capital to show “good faith.” Classic grifter tactics. A true cult can convince you to not only part with your money, but give up your entire life.
Amen!
If you drink tea (green tea is super good for you) then you go to hell, but it is okay to drink Pepsi.
It's pretty crazy that you're supposed to live for like 80 year's and really get to know like maybe a hundred people then you are expected to just spend eternity with them. Your actual life seems so insignificant in most religions. If you're going to spend all eternity in the afterlife your actual life is basically a loading screen that doesn't matter.
I mean that's basically every religion. Some are less extreme than others, but they basically all involve some form of "this is where believers go when they die." If believers and unbelievers go different places in the afterlife, you obviously need to pressure your family into joining as well.
If you want a fun read, there is “Beyond Beleif:My Secret Life” by Jenna Miscavige Hill about Scientology or “Stolen Innocence” by Elisa Wall about the Fundamentalist Mormon church. Really horrible, but eye opening autobiographies about girls growing up in these cults.
Should be illegal
This is pretty typical of major religions. They use stories about the afterlife to scare you into staying apart of the religion. Many if the manipulative tactics of religion build themselves by helping hold onto members or get new ones. There has been a significant amount of study applying evolutionary theory to religion. Meaning what are the traits and beliefs of that religion that allow it to survive and thrive through out the world? Like for example how catholics are encouraged to multiply and have many children as a matter of spiritual good. As well as then demonizing birth control. All of it is aimed at increasing their numbers. And over the thousands of years it has been around has resulted in just that.
Someone pls explain to me what these Mormons have got against coffee. I really don't get it. Fyi, I'm not from the US.
I saw it put like this once: When a Mormon tells you that only in the Mormon church do they teach that “families can be together forever”...politely correct them that, actually, the Mormon church is the only church in the world that believe families can be separated forever.
> If a church has to hold families hostage to keep people in line, it's a fucking cult. Scientology represent.
I agree with you 100% and am an atheist, but if I was gonna be in a cult, I definitely wanna be a Mormon. They're all such nice, loving family-oriented people and so involved in the community (yes, obviously I realize there are bound to be bad eggs, as in every community). I've worked with a handful of mormons in my career and they're really in another class of "great person." The rest of us felt guilty sometimes lol.